Steve Scully: Why do you wanna serve?
This country needs leadership. I think if you look anywhere in the country and ask people what they believe is missing up here at the, at the federal level it's leadership that they can trust, people who have the experience, that they can show that they had a record, they can work across the aisle and get things done. And I've had a, sort of a blessing in my professional life in that I've been able to spend about half of my time in public service and then half of my time doing other things, working for myself basically as a sole proprietor, and I just believe very strongly that we need to create a new environment in Washington where we have leaders who can talk across the aisle and actually solve our problems.
Steve Scully: And yet if you look at George W. Bush who said he was going to be a uniter not a divider, he talked about Barack Obama who said he was going to be a President for red, white and blue America and yet this town is more partisan than ever. How do you change that?
I think you change it with the right leadership. Maybe the best, the best example in, in recent times is what Ronald Reagan was able to do. If you look at the very end of the, the Carter administration, there were people in this country saying that you couldn't have one person in the Presidency, that the issues were too complex. There were even proposals that there would be a three person Presidency. Ronald Reagan was a leader, he had a vision, he brought good people around him, he gave them a sense of mission and he really inspired the country. You could disagree with one policy or another but he really did create the right environment where we could get things done.
Steve Scully: You served with Ronald Reagan, you have written about him a lot. What made him unique to the Presidency?
Well I, I wouldn't say that he was unique but I would say that he was a, a strong positive leader and in, in our environment here in Washington, a lot of people forget when we throw rhetorical issues around that one of the things you have to do is to be able to manage the most complex byzantine bureaucracy in the world and to communicate a sense of purpose in the country. And I think that President Reagan did that very well. He brought in alliance, he brought in people with very strong careers and gave them the mission and, and let them do the job. And that's what we need right now.
Steve Scully: When you announced your exploratory committee back in November you said that you wanted to run a campaign with a message and issues that you care about. What would the message or messages be and what are the key issues that are important to you?
Well first I, I think that if people look at what we have done throughout my professional career, we have been able to get things done in and out of, of government. During the time that I was in the Senate, I personally wrote along with legislative counsel this post 9/11 GI Bill that was not an easy lift. People look back and say, gee that makes a lot of sense. But we developed a leadership prototype with Republicans and Democrats, listened to people, and in 16 months we put together the best GI Bill in American history and on the model of the World War II GI Bill which I had worked on when I was a legislative counsel many years ago. We brought criminal justice reform into the national debate. And when I first came to the Senate the, the word was that if you were talking about over incarceration and those you know alternate issues that you were quote "soft on crime." We stood up, we took the hits, we did more than two years of hearings on this and we introduced legislation that caused people to gravitate toward our solution from across the philosophical spectrum. I warned five months before the invasion of Iraq this, this would be a strategic blunder, that it was going to empower Iran and it was going to cause the, the divisive sectarian violence that we've seen since then. I also warned against the way that the Obama Administration was handling the Arab Spring, particularly the situation in Libya, which I think the first rule of wind walking is don't let go of what you have until you've got a firm grasp of, of where you're going. So my, my message would be, we can sit down, innovate, take the hits, bring the country leadership and also that we would be focusing on the same issues that I've been dealing on, with for years. Economic fairness, social justice, reestablish a sense of direction in our foreign policy and in our military policy. And be very careful about the imbalance now that exists between the Presidency and the Congress. I think, I think Congress needs to take more responsibility on a number of these issues.
Steve Scully: I wanna come back to some of these issues and talk about Iraq and foreign policy and Vietnam, but let's talk about you. You were born in Missouri, you moved around a lot as a child. What do you remember?
Well, my, my father was a World War II Veteran, he didn't have any college and at the end of the war he was (inaudible) he was a pilot. But he didn't have any college so he spent a year and a half back in Saint Joe, Missouri where I was born and then reentered the military, was, was offered a commission to be a pilot again. So from that period all through my early life, we moved constantly. We had a lot of family separations. I like to say to our military people today, I know what it's like to have a dad deployed, I know what it's like to be deployed, I know what it's like to have a son deployed. Very much a part of, of how we grew up, the sacrifices that a military family, or military families make in the sense of duty that so many of the people who serve have. Also I learned how to operate in a lot of different geographical and, and ethnic backgrounds. I went to nine different schools in five years at one point. We were in England, Missouri, Texas, Alabama, California, Nebraska where I fought golden gloves and graduated from high school. So I learned a lot about the country I think and I learned about duty and I learned that I really wanted to serve.
Steve Scully: You have to be a native because you said Missouri and Missouri.
Yeah there's, there's even a big fight in Missouri about that but I was raised to say Missouri.
Steve Scully: Why the US Naval Academy?
I had gone to, Southern Cal on a scholarship for a year, an ROTC scholarship, and I had done very well in their leadership programs and they recommended there that I might give the Academy a shot and for me at that time in my life it was if you want to be, you know a top intellectual try to go to Yale. If you want to really learn leadership, go to the challenges of the Naval Academy.
Steve Scully: What did you learn?
Accountability, I was also on the Brigade Honor Committee for four years and had a profound effect on, on me watching how our program worked at, at the Naval Academy. And I learned the value of proper leadership in tough situations. And we all knew that in that period, 1964 to '68, that the country was undergoing a lot of turmoil, and that we needed to provide leadership for the people who were going to go to the war in Vietnam whatever the political thoughts were, that the war wasn't going to go away and it was our duty to go there.
Steve Scully: And you graduated in 1968, talk about the turmoil of that year. You had the announcement that LBJ was not seeking another term, you had the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, and you graduated at the height of the Vietnam War.
We did, you know we had the, the night before we graduated Robert Kennedy was assassinated. It was an incredible year, there were a lot of questions about the validity of our governmental process, fairness, the common sense of foreign policy, etcetera, etcetera. And, we all knew what our duty was going to be and where we were gonna be, be going.
Steve Scully: So what were you thinking? You're in your early 20's, you're about to be deployed to a war that had a lot of questions in this country and you were front and center?
I had an interesting discussion with my father who was career Air Force at the time who really did not like the way that McNamara was running the war. I think he supported the, the war itself and when your father is saying go in the Navy, you know stay on the ship, don't be a Marine. When my own father was saying that it was, there were a lot of strong family discussions at home, but I wanted to be a Marine. I wanted to do my part and the people who were over there, the young Marines who were over there fighting needed the kind of leadership that I thought I could bring and I wanted to go.
Steve Scully: What were your parents like?
My parents were, were great. My dad's my great hero. He went to night school for 26 years to finish college. He finished college by my senior year in high school. My mother grew up in east Arkansas and I think an existence as rough as anyone in this country has experienced. Out of eight siblings, three of them died of disease, childhood disease not childbirth. Her father died when she was 10 of medical situation and she chopped a lot of cotton and picked a lot of strawberries so I could be where, where I am today.
Steve Scully: Brothers, sisters?
I have two sisters and, and a brother and we, we cover the political spectrum when we have our discussions.
Steve Scully: So what's that like over Thanksgiving dinner?
Oh in phone calls and e-mails. I get a lot of e-mails from siblings and family members, particularly when I was in the Senate.
Steve Scully: What advice do they give you if any?
They're, we're pretty freewheeling and have a lot of political differences in, in our family but I always respect a family respect.
Steve Scully: So you served in the Navy, you served in the Vietnam War...
Served in the Marine Corps.
Steve Scully: In the Marine Corps, then you came back to the US, you worked on Capitol Hill for a while to do what?
Well I, I was wounded in Vietnam. I tried to stay in the Marine Corps. I got a medical retirement from the Marine Corps and went to law school at, at Georgetown. And started writing when I was in law school. I actually I started writing my last year in the Marine Corps when I was on the Secretary of the Navy staff, but really found a strong passion for it while I was in law school. Wrote a book on our strategic endross in the, in the Pacific focusing on actually an issue that right now is current and that’s the Guantinian Okinawa access how you would reshape American military presence out there. Worked as a military planner while I was in law school. I worked for the governor of Guam, traveled the region, gave my idea of what I thought our position in the, in the Pacific should look like. And then became a committee counsel for four years in the, in the Congress working on veteran's issues for the House Committee on Veteran's Affairs. Was lucky to be mentored by the World War II veterans who had really reshaped veteran's law. The World War I veterans hadn't gotten a terrific deal when they got back and the World War II veterans were the beneficiaries of the World War I, World War I people and I learned a great deal. But I also learned that I loved writing and I could make a living as an independent writer which is kind of hard to do in our country so I started this period where I would write for a while and miss leadership challenges and go back into government for a while and miss writing and so I began this alternate career path which no, no particular intentions at all just that I found that I loved to do both.
Steve Scully: You've written 10 books?
Steve Scully: You've won an Emmy?
Steve Scully: You've written a screenplay that turned into a film Have we ever had a President that's done all of that?
Steve Scully: How do you go about writing a book? I mean what's the process for Jim Webb?
Each one's different, I've also worked on a number of film projects as well but books themselves for me, a novel for me always starts with a theme, something that I that I would really like to be able to explore. And then the characters fall out of the, the themes. As a good example, I wrote a book called the Emperor's General which was about General MacArthur having hung General Tomoyuki Yamashita, Japan's greatest World War II general, the Tiger of Malaysia, the guy who had conquered Singapore and etcetera. And it always came back to me when I would read about the story, why did a great man kill a great man? Which is basically what happened. MacArthur had this basically kangaroo court when, when Yamashita was hung so taking that theme I ended up writing this novel at the very end of World War II and the beginning of post-war Japan. All about the complexities and what, what was going on etcetera, etcetera. But that's typically the way that I would write books.
Steve Scully: Vietnam as you know now a close trading ally, a close economic partner, would you have thought that 40 years ago?
This is what we were trying to do 45 years ago. You know I've always believed that, that Vietnam is one of the key countries for the United States in terms of how we approach east and southeast Asia. When I came to the Senate, I brought my staff together and this pivot that we keep talking about with Asia, we began the, the strengthening movement in Asia two years before the present administration came into office. I brought my staff in, I said we are going to work to invigorate our relations with Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore and change the formula in Burma and we were, we had I think a pretty good track record on all of those. With respect to Vietnam, I started going back to Vietnam in 1991 and have participated very strongly in the evolution of our relationship with their present government. And it, it was pretty much a Stalinist regime in '91 when I first went back. They were kind of the little, little brother of the Soviet regime. They were being, you know subsidized by the Soviet regime and when the Soviets went down they needed alternatives and that's one of the reasons they started opening up. But I've been a very enthusiastic and vigorous participant in bringing Vietnam into the international community in a positive way and also addressing the issues of our overseas Vietnam, two million of who including my wife, reside in the United States.
Steve Scully: And yet as you have written so often about Vietnam has really shaped America's foreign policy in the last 40 to 50 years, I mean the, the legacy, the mistakes of Vietnam with regard to Iraq, Afghanistan and other foreign initiatives.
Well, a lot of people have expected me simply you know to make that simple parallel and I've resisted that. I, I know that you know Vietnam is kind of like a roar shock test, you know how people look at Vietnam, particular our, our generation with respect to foreign policy. But even in my first book which I wrote when I was in law school when I was 28 years old I was talking more about how we should articulate our national security and its interests around the world and where we should be willing to, to be vigorous in terms of our, our involvement, which led me on the one hand to say the Iraq, the invasion of Iraq, the occupation by the United States of, of countries in that part of the world would be a huge strategic blunder. But at the same time I believe I can say I've been one of those leading voices in, in discussing Chinese expansionism and the way that we have to deal with the situation that we're seeing now in the South China Sea. I started writing about that and speaking about it 15 years ago.
Steve Scully: And we're seeing it right now, I mean even this week in China.
Steve Scully: How worried are you about what's happening in that part of the world?
Well as I say, I've been writing and speaking about the situation with Chinese expansionism and how the United States must remain as the strategic balancing force in, in that part of the world for, for many years. What's happened or what's come to the to the fore here in the, the past month or so has been going on for a good 15 years where it's a classic pattern of an authoritarian expansion's nation, where they make claims of sovereignty, in their case now an area all the way down to the Strait of Malacca far away from Chinese mainland, two million square kilometers of land in the South China Sea, more land mass than Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam put together. They make sovereign claims, we have spats out there and then we tend to think these are tactical claims and over time they have created a political jurisdiction, they did this three years ago. I wrote a piece in the, in the Wall Street Journal and encompassing that entire area called the Sansha Prefecture which reports directly to their central government. And we have to be firm that this is violation of the international law. What, what, what they say now is this is ours, this is our land, this is our political jurisdiction and if you say anything, you're violating our internal sovereignty which is just not true. I made a point two days ago on a, on a show that I believe if I were if I were the President right now, I would be directing my administration to pursue the notion of limited sanctions against China with respect to trade on defense matters. And I would actually be reviewing defense cooperation with them. We have to be able to communicate that this is a very serious matter.
Steve Scully: So how would you assess the foreign policy of this President?
He was, he was given a pretty poor hand when it came to the situation in, in the Middle East. I would say I think the great mistake of the administration was the way that the Arab Spring was handled. I think we are, it's going to take us a while to untangle the decisions that were made there, particularly with respect to Libya and, and there was no American direct American interest that should have called for military force. There were no treaties in, in effect. There was no attack or threat of attack. There was not even a civil war. I've made this point over and over again that what, what were the consequences under which or the circumstances under which a President should've been able to use military authority without coming to the Congress? I think that's, that's the, that's the issue that's really gonna have to be unraveled over time.
Steve Scully: Has the President been a strong leader?
I believe that in some areas President Obama has. I believe in terms of working with the Congress that we would, we would be a lot better if there were more, more direct you know sit downs where people from both sides of the aisle and, and work through the issues that confront the country.
Steve Scully: How do you think, take China, take Russia, how do you think they view the US?
I believe that our country needs a new and clear strategic doctrine. The last clear strategic doctrine was actually the Nixon doctrine that came in 1969, 1970 regarding when the United States was going to be involved in internal violence inside, inside different countries. Particularly since the fall of the Soviet Union we haven't had a clear explanation of how we are going to pursue our national interests and after 9-11 has even gotten more difficult. So I think all of these major, major regional powers or countries like China which is attempting to be more than a regional power. China and Russia are going to be conducting naval exercises in the Mediterranean this, this summer. They need to hear from us that these are the areas in which we as a country will declare our national security interests and we will back up our concerns, not just with a military confrontation but with economic sanctions or messages as well.
Steve Scully: And you've seen this not only through your own eyes but your son who has served. What advice did you give him before he was deployed? He served in Iraq correct?
Yes he did. My, my son was left Penn State and he enlisted in the Marine Corps and was a rifleman with the Marine infantry in Ramadi during some of the worst fighting which we're now seeing every day that area with respect to ISIS and, and some of these other problems. Advice about military service is not something that you just sit down and give somebody right before they go. We've had thousands of hours of discussions the same way that my father did with me when I was growing up. This is what we talked about at the dinner table. How do you motivate people, how do you lead them, how do you make hard decisions? What kind of a leader would you want, do you want somebody who is making you do something or do you want somebody who is making you want to do something? So by the time my son left, we had a pretty clear understanding of you know what our family has done for a very long time.
Steve Scully: And you're smiling like a very proud father.
Well it was a hard time, you know and particularly infantry combat in any war is hard and you, on the one hand feel a great amount of pride and respect and on the other you know that people pay the price when they serve and it's our obligation as leaders to, to make sure that they are properly rewarded.
Steve Scully: Let me ask you about something else. Directly behind you is a replica of that statue that is at the Vietnam War Memorial not far from we are, where we are in the mall in Washington, D.C. and you insisted that an African American was represented in that memorial. How did that all come about?
That's a very long and complicated story. But actually this, this sculpture here I think was one of only two that was every made. Rick Hart, the sculptor, gave me this, this particular sculpture as a gift to thank me for the work that we did to get a sculpture at the Memorial and working with him for over many many months. He's an artist, he, he talked and talked, he wanted to know different things before he put the, the sculpture together. We were successful in getting a sculpture there, getting a flag at a time when they were not a part of the original design. I wrote the inscription on the flag pole by the way, very proud of that. And when the sculpture was first agreed upon, it was going to be an American soldier and my father actually was visiting at the time and he turned around and he said well, where's the black soldier gonna be? And I said you know you're right, you can't do it with one, you have to do it with three and we had a lot of confrontations on that but I think it's worked and I think I’m very very proud of what we see down there now.
Steve Scully: And you mentioned your wife is originally from Vietnam, how did you meet?
My wife was born in Vietnam. She, her family like so many others, fled when the Communists took over in 1975. The entire extended family, which she had seven siblings, got on a boat. Her father was a fisherman and were scooped up out of the ocean by the United States Navy and she went to two refugee camps, one on Guam and one in Arkansas and spent most of her growing years in New Orleans. Worked hard, you know the story, you know the American dream. She worked hard, got scholarships, went to the University of Michigan for the Asian studies program and then to Cornell Law School and we met when she was an attorney here in, in Washington and I was working on a project inside Vietnam, one of a number of projects inside Vietnam.
Steve Scully: In 2005 2006 you were thinking and then announced your candidacy for the Senate. Most people told you you can't win. How did you defeat George Allen?
Well I decided, first I, I spent a lot of time thinking about it before we announced and people were worried as I think I see right now people become worried that you, you have, you have to make a decision. You know have to get out there and do these things but I wanted to be clear in my head that I could put 100 percent of my energy into a campaign before we decided. I, I announced for the Senate nine months to the day before the election and we had no money and no campaign staff and we were 33 points behind and I decided to put the issues out that we cared about and to stay on the issues as best as I could rather than getting sidetracked in a lot of the other things that are inevitable in, in political campaigns. We stayed on message. We never approached the, the money that the other side was able to raise, but we got 14,000 volunteers to come out and help us and I think that was the difference.
Steve Scully: I have to ask you about that one moment which George Allen used the term Macaca and it became a YouTube sensation and to this day political scientists have studied the impact that had on your campaign and on the George Allen campaign. Did you realize at the time its significance?
Well for me the key moment, I think, I think what happened with that moment and George Allen could probably give you more insights than, than I than I would. But I think what happened at that, at that moment was people across the country who were dismissing the campaign started paying attention. That's when we started getting money and the defining moment in the campaign in my view was Meet the Press in September which was a couple months later where Tim Russert had us side by side and really asked both of us a lot of hard questions and I was able to have a floor on more I could explain my views. And that, that was our, our big turning point in terms of campaign finance.
Steve Scully: What did you find when you came to the Senate? Was it what you expected?
It was. I had spent four years as a Committee Counsel in the House. We used to put 20 to 25 bills a year through, through the House floor. I understood the process, the legislative process. I've I've had many different billets, leadership billets, military and five years in the Pentagon. What I didn't really expect was the way that campaign finance drives American politics. And that was a that was a, for someone who has lived in or near Washington for a very long time, written a lot of political commentary, that was a stunner to be in the middle of it and to realize what campaign finance did to campaigns.
Steve Scully: What did you accomplish? What, what would you say was your biggest accomplishment six years in the Senate?
I think we had a lot of major accomplishments despite the, the paralysis that infected the, the system particularly after the the '10 elections but we, we brought right out of our office the best GI Bill in history. More than a million post 9-11 veterans now have a GI Bill. It's very similar to the World War II GI Bill that empowered a whole generation of veterans to to be successful. We brought criminal justice reform out of the shadows into the national debate, and we took a lot of hits when we when we started doing it. We were a voice in foreign policy, particularly in Asia policy, the, the strongest voice in the, in the Congress in terms of Asia policy. Before this so-called pivot toward, toward Asia and I've been involved in the military in one way or another all my life and we did a lot of, you know, made made a lot of contributions on the Armed Services Committee as well. And my number one accomplishment, and I said this at the beginning when I was in the Senate, people said what is gonna be your legacy from being in the Senate, were the people that we brought in. At the very first of my period of my term I said my people are going to be my legacy. We brought in good people, we gave them my approach toward leadership. I have sort of an oil slick theory where you've got these people out there in other places right now and the country is gonna hear from 'em.
Steve Scully: I wanna go back to your service in Vietnam, when you came back did you feel gratitude or scorn by Americans? And I ask you that because we really have seemed to have swung the pendulum where we say thank you for your service and so much has changed with regard to those who serve in the military. What did you experience?
Vietnam Veterans were, or the Vietnam age group, was starkly divided between those who supported the war and those who did not. And those who did not support the war in many cases were among the, the more privileged and elite in, in our generation and they had by the positions that they took, they had made it very difficult for a lot of the, the people who came back from Vietnam. And you know in other words, instead of just saying now since we don't have a draft, instead of just saying oh thank God I didn't have to go, the, the, the word out there on the street was this is an immoral, evil, genocidal war and I'm not going to take part in it. And so that was a, that was a heavy burden for the people who came back. At the same time, the country as a whole has always loved its veterans, always. We did a, a landmark survey on the VA survey when I was on the House Veterans Committee, $6 million survey. 90, or 9.8, let me get this right. On a scale of one to 10 in America, 9.8 was where the American people scored their Vietnam Veterans.
Steve Scully: I wanna go back to what you said back in 2012, you decided not to seek reelection and you said, "I faced the Hobson's choice of either turning into a perennial scold or surrendering a part of my individuality to the uncontrollable, collective nature of group politics."
Well I think if you look at, at the Senate and the way that the larger bills come to the, to the floor the caucus has a tendency to neutralize a lot of strong opinions and so you either end up, you know voting when these large bills, and people still ask me about different, different ones like healthcare reform, or you end up down on the floor like you know some, some Senators that are just talking. And I'm very thankful for having had six years over there, but I like to get things done and it's, there are other places where you can get things done better I think.
Steve Scully: Do you enjoy campaigning?
I enjoy the face to face campaigning. You know I enjoy getting out in the town hall meetings and talking to people and listening to what their thoughts are and been able to clarify mine. What I don't enjoy is campaign finance. I, to be very blunt about that, you know it's and I actually said when I announced the exploratory committee that one thing I can say is that I will, you know I will never owe anything to anyone if I am elected. But it's a very tough proposition to be able to raise enough funds in order to conduct a viable campaign. And that's really where our decision point is.
Steve Scully: So based on that and based on your campaign here in Virginia, what would potentially a Jim Webb campaign look like?
We'd get out and talk to people. I'd say exactly what I believe and in terms of where the issues of the country are. We have had, we have vigorous, whenever I go to a town hall meeting we have vigorous discussions. I got out, when I decided to run, at the beginning in, in the Senate campaign, we had a contested primary, we were outspent I think 10 to one in the, in the primary by a long time Virginia Democrat. We just got out in a in a Jeep. I called one of my old radio operators, a very close friend of mine, Matt McGarvey who had lost his arm in, in, in Vietnam and was working at the number one honky tonk in Nashville, Tennessee and I said I need your help. He came in here, quit his job, moved into my basement and off we went and we'd go to three meetings a night, sit down and talk to people. Tell them what we're about. We won the primary convincingly and then kept doing that.
Steve Scully: Well as you know campaign, any campaign is about a choice so your campaign, if you were to run against Hillary Clinton or Martin O'Malley or Lincoln Chaffee or Senator Sanders what's the choice? Why you and not them?
Well, I wouldn’t be running against any (inaudible) be running for the Presidency of the United States and that would be, that is my, my message. This country really needs leadership not only that you can trust but that you can look back and see a pattern of getting things done and a consistency and a willingness to listen. And I think that's what we need now.
Steve Scully: Finish this sentence, the state of America today is what?
We remain the, the most unique society on earth and good leadership will enable more greatness.
Steve Scully: We are in your office in Arlington, Virginia overlooking the National Mall and the Iowajima Memorial. I know you've spent some time at Arlington Cemetery often taking walks there. What do you think about it?
That's a, that's a great, well I have a lot of friends there, and my parents are buried there so it's a great place to go and think about the country and service and to remember people that you care about.
Steve Scully: Do you think a lot here? Do you write in this office here?
This is my writing office, yeah. And of course when, when you write you think.
Steve Scully: So what's your timeline in terms of a potential candidacy?
I think soon. We, we have to make a decision soon.
Steve Scully: And what do your kids tell you about a potential run? And maybe your brothers and sisters?
When I’m with my, you know, when I’m with my kids I talk to all of 'em pretty regularly, we can talk about issues but we don't talk about whether I should run or not. It just doesn't really, we don't talk about it.
Steve Scully: And finally when you're not involved in a potential campaign or not involved in writing, what does Jim Webb do to relax and, and have some fun?
My oldest daughter, Amy, was asked that and she said make sure he is working on a creative project. Part of me will always write no matter what and actually we are, I am working on, on a project with FX right now, a 10 hour series that I've been writing. And I've always been an avid fisherman, a bass fisherman. Never done much on the salt water side, that's one of the great connections with my brother and my, and my son and other people in our family do, go on fishing trips and all sorts of things so.
Q = Steve Scully
A = Jim Webb
U = Unidentified Speaker
(INAUDIBLE) = Areas that could not be heard due to background noise, tape/phone line quality, muffled speaking, etc.